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Welcome to the staging ground for new communities! Each proposal has a description in the "Descriptions" category and a body of questions and answers in "Incubator Q&A". You can ask questions (and get answers, we hope!) right away, and start new proposals.

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Comments on Should proposals all have MathJax or none have MathJax?

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Should proposals all have MathJax or none have MathJax?

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Some Codidact communities have MathJax enabled, while others do not. Each community decides whether they want MathJax based on weighing up the advantages and disadvantages.

However, Codidact Proposals has to make this decision once for all proposed communities. Currently MathJax is switched on for all proposals. This causes problems for some communities, most notably those that have reason to use the dollar sign ($), such as Finance and Accounting. This could be solved by switching off MathJax, but that would remove it for all the other proposals, some of which get significant benefit from it, such as Machine Learning, AI Tech, and Artificial Life.

The difficulties caused when trying to use more than one literal dollar sign ($) in a post are highlighted by an example post on the development server. A single dollar sign in a post is displayed as a dollar sign, but a second dollar sign later in the same paragraph will result in everything between the two being interpreted as MathJax (dollar signs disappear, text between is displayed in a different font, in italics, with all spaces stripped out). This can be suppressed with a double backslash before the first dollar sign, but most users will not know that, especially for a community that does not use MathJax. Worse, when there are more than two dollar signs in a paragraph, each needs a different number of backslashes to suppress MathJax, with no apparent pattern (see the example post linked at the start of this paragraph).

How should we resolve this problem?

  • Switch off MathJax for all proposals?
  • Keep MathJax for all proposals and accept the difficulty?
  • Introduce guidance for communities that have MathJax enabled (including Codidact Proposals)?
  • Implement a fix so that MathJax no longer behaves so unpredictably with multiple dollar signs in a paragraph?

Are there any other options? Is there a way to enable MathJax only for certain proposal tags?

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1 comment thread

mattermost as reference (1 comment)
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MathJax should be enabled everywhere. Many communities either need it or will need it. It's tedious to ask for it every time, and then when it's added, to go back and edit dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of questions which used some crude backtick syntax to make do in absence of MathJax.

What is the reason for not adding anyway? I assumed that Stack sites either added as a retrofit long after the site was created, and/or they had to pay for some MathJax service and didn't want to bother adding native support. I'd like to think we are in a more enlightened place here :) and these don't apply.

You would have a better argument for making backticks for code optional than MathJax. Mathematical notation has much broader relevance in life than code (I say this as a professional software developer and lifelong keen hacker). Virtually everyone learns math in primary school, but most people do not know how to code. And if I had to choose between more people knowing math and more people knowing to code, I would choose math any day even though I dislike math and love coding (and it's not just to reduce job competition! :D).

This causes problems for some communities, most notably those that have reason to use the dollar sign ($), such as Finance and Accounting.

True. But of all the Stack sites I've used, if I had to name one site that doesn't support MathJax that I really, really wish it did, it would be Finance hands down.

It's unfortunate that Knuth did not pick a better syntax for TeX, and then the problem was perpetuated into Markdown by the creators of MathJax. It is indeed annoying when trying to describe currencies.

Why don't we use $$ for inline Math (Latex $) and $$$ (when on its own line) for the display math (TeX $$)? MathJax users will know to try $$ when $ doesn't work, and $$$ at least recalls ``` for code. Plus we could just add them to the little footer below the edit box.

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3 comment threads

Mathjax is slow (5 comments)
Please don't invent yet another syntax (3 comments)
Changing the syntax sounds promising (3 comments)
Mathjax is slow
samcarter‭ wrote over 1 year ago · edited over 1 year ago

The main reason why SE does not enable mathjax by default is that is very slow

MathJax increases page load times drastically, so it's only supported on sites that have demonstrated a serious need for it.

Quote from https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/216607/237989

As a tradeoff, enabling it for all proposals might be ok, but for grown up communities, I think it makes sense to enable it only on the communities which need/want it.

trichoplax‭ wrote over 1 year ago

This is useful to know - thank you.

That's a good point about only enabling MathJax on communities that choose it. It's worth bearing in mind that when a proposed community migrates to its own subdomain, it will take all its incubator posts with it. So if we give MathJax by default to all proposed communities, then they may end up with MathJax posts even if the proposed community will later decide they don't want MathJax. This means they will have posts that break on migration.

matthewsnyder‭ wrote over 1 year ago · edited over 1 year ago

increases page load time drastically

I wonder what is considered drastic here. I never noticed a big difference between pages that have MathJax and don't. MathJax usually loads last, so you see the content pretty quickly, just with equations mangled. And the equations usually render within a second or two (and by then you are still reading the prose part in the beginning).

It's easy to block MathJax with uBlock etc if it really bothers you. Although I see the use case for allowing it to be disabled.

In that case, it sounds better to let users disable MathJax globally (or make it "click to render") on all sites for their own account, rather than doing it at the community level.

trichoplax‭ wrote over 1 year ago

If I was participating in a community that had MathJax enabled for only some users then I would want to avoid using it in my posts.

If I was a user with MathJax disabled then I would see posts that are very difficult to read, but where the post authors assume there is no problem because they see rendered MathJax.

Skipping 1 deleted comment.

trichoplax‭ wrote over 1 year ago

I'd also want to consider readers who do not have an account (or just don't happen to be logged in). They would either need to be opted in, and have slow page loads, or be opted out, and have to manually activate rendering for every MathJax post.